An Ethical dilemma is a situation in which a person is faced with two choices which conflict with their ethical system.For example in your ethical system stealing is always wrong.Also letting one's family die from starvation is always wrong.A person in such a situation would be forced to commit one wrong to avoid committing another wrong. Which does she choose, steal food to keep ,her children alive, or let them starve to avoid stealing.Whichever choice she makes will put her in conflict with those whose view of the acts varied from her own. Maybe she could be executed or imprisoned for making either of the choices.In New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina, many people were faced with the same dilemma. Break the window of the store to steal food or drinking water, or watch their baby die for lack of food or drinkable water.Which would you choose? Please tell some ethical dilemmas you can think of.
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What do you do if you see someone cheating in school? Is it for you to decide as a student, whether to report them or tell them to stop?
What do we do if we see the answers on an exam on someone else's paper? What if we see the answer and realize that we put the wrong answer? Do we keep our wrong answer or change it to match the one we were not supposed to see?
Are you asking about converting to a religion when a person had none before? Or, did you want me to address conversion as in switching religions? I think religion is a universal trait among human cultures. That doesn't mean that we all share a religion, as you well know. It just means that humankind has found that religion is a necessary part of life, in any part of the world that I am aware of.
That does not mean that we all practice a religion, because some individuals do reject the notion of God or a higher power. It just means that even in the most remote places, humans have a concept of a greater power that directs them toward doing good. We also usually see a concept of an evil force as well, which is used to explain the temptations we have to do things we know are wrong.
A person with no religion may find great satisfaction from religious conversion, as long as he or she has faith. Religion helps us deal with the world around us and allows us to stop feeling bad about things we have done wrong. Both Islam and Christianity convert and provide salvation from sins for people from any culture. They are religions intended to be universal and open to all people. The major theological difference that I can see is centered on whether Jesus was the son of God or a messenger (prophet) from God.
There are other religions besides these two that seek to convert people from all cultures. There are also religions that do not actively seek converts, but mainly continue in the places where they originated centuries ago. There are also some religions that have been started much more recently, and all of them seem to make their members feel better than before they joined/converted. :)
The third paragraph on your reply answered my question quite well. I believe that acceptance and faith is very important for new converts whether they have or have no religion from the beginning. If the new converts cannot have the faith to believe in somethng that is true without any proof then I think, they are not ready for any religion that believes in God. hmmm... most likely their act is just experimental. ^_^ they have to be truthful and honest to themselves first.
For me religion is something sacred. It's incomparable to any of the products available in the market. The neophytes of any God-oriented religion should be willing to place The Almighty (The Creator of heaven & earth, the sea, human beings & animals and all the other things seen or unseen (e.g. air) around us...) at the center of their lives. Respect in any religion is also important. Even some of my Atheist friends know how to respect other religion.
For some people they thought that religion is like a stepping stone. They thought they will be saved if they have religion. I think, they cannot be saved if they do not know and will not understand where they stand. For me, self-awareness is very important and the place where we stand in relation to our God.
I have came face to face with someone who doesn't show respect in my religion. I am not God to judge him but I will forever keep in my mind and heart the degree of evilness he can do to destroy others. It was like a flash of light that glowed before me. I was able to see what's in his heart and mind. Then lately, I have realized the significance of the story in the bible about the deeds of the beasts. And realized too how they manifest themselves to the world.
I have seen movies like that Nida. That is part of what I was trying to say in answer to Lynn about the student. All choices will change our life, and as I said, could even cause your death.
Yet I believe that a wrong choice can cause harm to the spirit or karma, but I think that people can change. The one who did something wrong can have a change in his heart and become a good person. If the crime or sin was bad enough, the person may be jailed or executed for it. But to me the change the person went through, like religious conversion, can help to make up for the bad deed he did. I think he can face death with happiness instead of fear and hate.
Well, a nice and thought provoking topic indeed for a good discussion. Everybody has expressed his/her views. Some said, if I were in her shoes, I will do this and I won't do that. Somebody else said, I won't do this and I will do that. But I think, all this discussion is just a theory. Only a hypothetical situation. Nobody actually knows what he/she will do, when he/she will be actually in that situation. Discussing some idea while comfortably sit in front of your PC, and actually being in that situation are two entirely different scenarios. Many a times, when we do something wrong, or misbehave with someone, we promise with ourselves, that we won't do it again. But we do that again, even when we were in that kind of situation before. So, I think one can't decide about his/her reaction, before falling victim to a certain kind of situation.
So at this moment, when I'm sitting in front of PC, I can say that mother will be right if she steals food for her children.
But there is something else, which is called faith. There are people who believe that God is there. And if God has saved their children from war or a natural disaster, He will also save them from hunger and disease. And if their children have to die, they'll die sooner or later even if they steal food or water to save their lives.
In Pakistani and Indian movies, there is always that kind of situation. For example, they show that a man is very honest and hardworking(and they show that honest man is always poor!). There are always some criminal people, who want that man to work for them, but he always refuses. Suddenly his father/mother/wife or a child become very ill. His boss won't give him some loan so he decides to work for criminal people, and earns some money. But as he reach home or during some kind of operation his child dies. The moral is that something you earn or get in wrong way won't do any good to you.
I think your new example (below) belongs to another category. It's incomparable to the one above. Our actions lest our lives be put in danger (as in your example; by accidents) would be based on what our minds would dictate us at that very moment. Most likely, our mind will be dominated by our instinct which is common even to animals. Our decisions has something to do with our own lives in relation to time while the other example above is more on our obligation or responsiblity in relation to those around us. Ethics has something to do with what's right and proper for the betterment of all.
I agree when you said, we all make mistakes but this reasoning cannot be used to justify the bad actions one has done. The mistakes you are talking about here I supposed are honest mistakes maybe because of lack of knowledge or young mind or even ignorance. But, a bad act done intentionally is another story. There's a great difference.
Bob, thanks for the blessings. How do I bless myself, Bob? ^_^
Why did you say, the glass is half full? What do you mean?
It's nice discussing with you Bob. I would like to answer your questions but it's too many. ^_^
Thank you.
Bob said:
Lynne,
We do not always make the choice that is best for us. Sometimes it may be the difference between two choices which are neither good or bad. The one choice we make could cause us to be a few seconds later or earlier crossing the street and be killed by a distracted driver. If it caused us to miss death from some random accident has nothing to do with if it were good or bad. Your case of the student who may get sick and miss preparatory classes may have a tough decision, wait one year, or take the test anyway and hope for the best. Take it one step further and have family pressure to pass the test so strong that the student tries anyway and takes the test. This will affect the rest of his life just as many choices we make. By the placement of the students in the exam hall he is near the smartest girl in his city who everyone realizes will make a good score on the test. Somehow her shiny black patent-leather purse which is on the window sill and the mirror on the overhead projector in front of him, are in alignment so that as he faces forward the reflection of her exam is right before him. Since it is reflected twice it is right side up and a perfect image. He sees clearly as she writes her name on the paper and notices the copy is the same as he has been given to take.
Here is the dilemma. Does he, or does he not continue to let his eyes see the answers. His father is depending on him doing well. This girls answers will insure him of that is he copies them. If he does not look at them he may not be able to succeed and make father happy? I wonder what he will do. He knows that to cheat is wrong. He knows that father will be heart broken if the oldest son is not the first in the family to get in the good college.
What happens if he looks down and just ignores her answers? What if he only looks at the ones he is unsure about? Is it wrong if he just uses one page of hers or only steals one of her answers? What if he just goes through the test using every one of her answers?
If he decides to ignore the chance to cheat and fails the test and events lead him to a sad life in poverty? Is he later going to regret not cheating? If he uses her answers and makes a very high score, is he doomed to feeling guilty his whole live? Is he now a bad person and everything else he does is tainted by this dishonest action? Is he able to continue school and move ahead with his life and forget this episode completely? Will he be haunted by guilt?
Lynne, I think that the results of our actions are not the question here. I am not trying to see ahead how his life is affected by his choice. I think that ethics present us with with the opportunity to think about if a choice is right or is wrong. We can make the right choice and be killed by the bus that has gone out of control. We can make the wrong choice and still be killed by the same bus. Without knowing the future, we are here trying to decide which action is ethical, just because we nee to know how to think about, and how to make such decisions.
Maybe an unethical choice will actually make our life better in some ways, such as stealing money and not getting caught. Maybe making an ethical choice will destroy us financially or get us killed.
Life is complex and people make mistakes. I have made many, and so have you because we are human. Can I admit my mistakes to myself? Can I forgive myself for doing wrong? Can I go forward with life and try to be ethical and try to make the right choices? The answer for me is unknown. Can I, will I, forgive my self for my mistakes? Can I, will I, move forward with my life by realizing that the past was yesterday; that the future is happening today and tomorrow, that I can make a choice to be ethical, that I can make a choice to be happy? Of course I can, but will I? Will you? Will any of us?
Can the murderer live a good life by realizing his mistake and changing his ways? Can the liar, cheat, and thief do the same? It does happen. Sometimes people we think must be the worst of humanity can convert to a good life. It can happen in prison. It can happen in church, or some other place. I think that you and I must let go of troubling thoughts that do not move us forward. We must admit we are human and that we will make some mistakes. Then we must try to understand the ethical choice and do our best to make it.
The past is over, forget it. The sun is rising and the new day is here. We are capable of much good even if we have seen much bad. The human spirit is strong and can overcome. Nobody is saying it will be easy. God bless you Lynne. Also please bless yourself, and may you see that the glass is half full and not half empty. There is a difference and if we can see the good it will be easier for us to feel good.
We do not always make the choice that is best for us. Sometimes it may be the difference between two choices which are neither good or bad. The one choice we make could cause us to be a few seconds later or earlier crossing the street and be killed by a distracted driver. If it caused us to miss death from some random accident has nothing to do with if it were good or bad.
Your case of the student who may get sick and miss preparatory classes may have a tough decision, wait one year, or take the test anyway and hope for the best. Take it one step further and have family pressure to pass the test so strong that the student tries anyway and takes the test. This will affect the rest of his life just as many choices we make. By the placement of the students in the exam hall he is near the smartest girl in his city who everyone realizes will make a good score on the test. Somehow her shiny black patent-leather purse which is on the window sill and the mirror on the overhead projector in front of him, are in alignment so that as he faces forward the reflection of her exam is right before him. Since it is reflected twice it is right side up and a perfect image. He sees clearly as she writes her name on the paper and notices the copy is the same as he has been given to take.
Here is the dilemma. Does he, or does he not continue to let his eyes see the answers. His father is depending on him doing well. This girls answers will insure him of that is he copies them. If he does not look at them he may not be able to succeed and make father happy? I wonder what he will do. He knows that to cheat is wrong. He knows that father will be heart broken if the oldest son is not the first in the family to get in the good college.
What happens if he looks down and just ignores her answers? What if he only looks at the ones he is unsure about? Is it wrong if he just uses one page of hers or only steals one of her answers?
What if he just goes through the test using every one of her answers?
If he decides to ignore the chance to cheat and fails the test and events lead him to a sad life in poverty? Is he later going to regret not cheating? If he uses her answers and makes a very high score, is he doomed to feeling guilty his whole live? Is he now a bad person and everything else he does is tainted by this dishonest action? Is he able to continue school and move ahead with his life and forget this episode completely? Will he be haunted by guilt?
Lynne, I think that the results of our actions are not the question here. I am not trying to see ahead how his life is affected by his choice. I think that ethics present us with with the opportunity to think about if a choice is right or is wrong. We can make the right choice and be killed by the bus that has gone out of control. We can make the wrong choice and still be killed by the same bus. Without knowing the future, we are here trying to decide which action is ethical, just because we nee to know how to think about, and how to make such decisions.
Maybe an unethical choice will actually make our life better in some ways, such as stealing money and not getting caught. Maybe making an ethical choice will destroy us financially or get us killed.
Life is complex and people make mistakes. I have made many, and so have you because we are human. Can I admit my mistakes to myself? Can I forgive myself for doing wrong? Can I go forward with life and try to be ethical and try to make the right choices? The answer for me is unknown. Can I, will I, forgive my self for my mistakes? Can I, will I, move forward with my life by realizing that the past was yesterday; that the future is happening today and tomorrow, that I can make a choice to be ethical, that I can make a choice to be happy?
Of course I can, but will I? Will you? Will any of us?
Can the murderer live a good life by realizing his mistake and changing his ways? Can the liar, cheat, and thief do the same? It does happen. Sometimes people we think must be the worst of humanity can convert to a good life. It can happen in prison. It can happen in church, or some other place. I think that you and I must let go of troubling thoughts that do not move us forward. We must admit we are human and that we will make some mistakes. Then we must try to understand the ethical choice and do our best to make it.
The past is over, forget it. The sun is rising and the new day is here. We are capable of much good even if we have seen much bad. The human spirit is strong and can overcome. Nobody is saying it will be easy. God bless you Lynne. Also please bless yourself, and may you see that the glass is half full and not half empty. There is a difference and if we can see the good it will be easier for us to feel good.
Replies
Let's think about what we should do and also what we would do. Will they be the same?
What do you do if you see someone cheating in school? Is it for you to decide as a student, whether to report them or tell them to stop?
What do we do if we see the answers on an exam on someone else's paper? What if we see the answer and realize that we put the wrong answer? Do we keep our wrong answer or change it to match the one we were not supposed to see?
Lynne,
Are you asking about converting to a religion when a person had none before? Or, did you want me to address conversion as in switching religions? I think religion is a universal trait among human cultures. That doesn't mean that we all share a religion, as you well know. It just means that humankind has found that religion is a necessary part of life, in any part of the world that I am aware of.
That does not mean that we all practice a religion, because some individuals do reject the notion of God or a higher power. It just means that even in the most remote places, humans have a concept of a greater power that directs them toward doing good. We also usually see a concept of an evil force as well, which is used to explain the temptations we have to do things we know are wrong.
A person with no religion may find great satisfaction from religious conversion, as long as he or she has faith. Religion helps us deal with the world around us and allows us to stop feeling bad about things we have done wrong. Both Islam and Christianity convert and provide salvation from sins for people from any culture. They are religions intended to be universal and open to all people. The major theological difference that I can see is centered on whether Jesus was the son of God or a messenger (prophet) from God.
There are other religions besides these two that seek to convert people from all cultures. There are also religions that do not actively seek converts, but mainly continue in the places where they originated centuries ago. There are also some religions that have been started much more recently, and all of them seem to make their members feel better than before they joined/converted. :)
The third paragraph on your reply answered my question quite well. I believe that acceptance and faith is very important for new converts whether they have or have no religion from the beginning. If the new converts cannot have the faith to believe in somethng that is true without any proof then I think, they are not ready for any religion that believes in God. hmmm... most likely their act is just experimental. ^_^ they have to be truthful and honest to themselves first.
Thank you Mr. Bob.
For me religion is something sacred. It's incomparable to any of the products available in the market. The neophytes of any God-oriented religion should be willing to place The Almighty (The Creator of heaven & earth, the sea, human beings & animals and all the other things seen or unseen (e.g. air) around us...) at the center of their lives. Respect in any religion is also important. Even some of my Atheist friends know how to respect other religion.
For some people they thought that religion is like a stepping stone. They thought they will be saved if they have religion. I think, they cannot be saved if they do not know and will not understand where they stand. For me, self-awareness is very important and the place where we stand in relation to our God.
I have came face to face with someone who doesn't show respect in my religion. I am not God to judge him but I will forever keep in my mind and heart the degree of evilness he can do to destroy others. It was like a flash of light that glowed before me. I was able to see what's in his heart and mind. Then lately, I have realized the significance of the story in the bible about the deeds of the beasts. And realized too how they manifest themselves to the world.
Yet I believe that a wrong choice can cause harm to the spirit or karma, but I think that people can change. The one who did something wrong can have a change in his heart and become a good person. If the crime or sin was bad enough, the person may be jailed or executed for it. But to me the change the person went through, like religious conversion, can help to make up for the bad deed he did. I think he can face death with happiness instead of fear and hate.
Since you've mentioned religious conversion Bob. Could you please discuss more about the significance of religious conversion to better a person?
So at this moment, when I'm sitting in front of PC, I can say that mother will be right if she steals food for her children.
But there is something else, which is called faith. There are people who believe that God is there. And if God has saved their children from war or a natural disaster, He will also save them from hunger and disease. And if their children have to die, they'll die sooner or later even if they steal food or water to save their lives.
In Pakistani and Indian movies, there is always that kind of situation. For example, they show that a man is very honest and hardworking(and they show that honest man is always poor!). There are always some criminal people, who want that man to work for them, but he always refuses. Suddenly his father/mother/wife or a child become very ill. His boss won't give him some loan so he decides to work for criminal people, and earns some money. But as he reach home or during some kind of operation his child dies. The moral is that something you earn or get in wrong way won't do any good to you.
I think your new example (below) belongs to another category. It's incomparable to the one above. Our actions lest our lives be put in danger (as in your example; by accidents) would be based on what our minds would dictate us at that very moment. Most likely, our mind will be dominated by our instinct which is common even to animals. Our decisions has something to do with our own lives in relation to time while the other example above is more on our obligation or responsiblity in relation to those around us. Ethics has something to do with what's right and proper for the betterment of all.
I agree when you said, we all make mistakes but this reasoning cannot be used to justify the bad actions one has done. The mistakes you are talking about here I supposed are honest mistakes maybe because of lack of knowledge or young mind or even ignorance. But, a bad act done intentionally is another story. There's a great difference.
Bob, thanks for the blessings. How do I bless myself, Bob? ^_^
Why did you say, the glass is half full? What do you mean?
It's nice discussing with you Bob. I would like to answer your questions but it's too many. ^_^
Thank you.
Bob said:
We do not always make the choice that is best for us. Sometimes it may be the difference between two choices which are neither good or bad. The one choice we make could cause us to be a few seconds later or earlier crossing the street and be killed by a distracted driver. If it caused us to miss death from some random accident has nothing to do with if it were good or bad.
Your case of the student who may get sick and miss preparatory classes may have a tough decision, wait one year, or take the test anyway and hope for the best. Take it one step further and have family pressure to pass the test so strong that the student tries anyway and takes the test. This will affect the rest of his life just as many choices we make. By the placement of the students in the exam hall he is near the smartest girl in his city who everyone realizes will make a good score on the test. Somehow her shiny black patent-leather purse which is on the window sill and the mirror on the overhead projector in front of him, are in alignment so that as he faces forward the reflection of her exam is right before him. Since it is reflected twice it is right side up and a perfect image. He sees clearly as she writes her name on the paper and notices the copy is the same as he has been given to take.
Here is the dilemma. Does he, or does he not continue to let his eyes see the answers. His father is depending on him doing well. This girls answers will insure him of that is he copies them. If he does not look at them he may not be able to succeed and make father happy? I wonder what he will do. He knows that to cheat is wrong. He knows that father will be heart broken if the oldest son is not the first in the family to get in the good college.
What happens if he looks down and just ignores her answers? What if he only looks at the ones he is unsure about? Is it wrong if he just uses one page of hers or only steals one of her answers?
What if he just goes through the test using every one of her answers?
If he decides to ignore the chance to cheat and fails the test and events lead him to a sad life in poverty? Is he later going to regret not cheating? If he uses her answers and makes a very high score, is he doomed to feeling guilty his whole live? Is he now a bad person and everything else he does is tainted by this dishonest action? Is he able to continue school and move ahead with his life and forget this episode completely? Will he be haunted by guilt?
Lynne, I think that the results of our actions are not the question here. I am not trying to see ahead how his life is affected by his choice. I think that ethics present us with with the opportunity to think about if a choice is right or is wrong. We can make the right choice and be killed by the bus that has gone out of control. We can make the wrong choice and still be killed by the same bus. Without knowing the future, we are here trying to decide which action is ethical, just because we nee to know how to think about, and how to make such decisions.
Maybe an unethical choice will actually make our life better in some ways, such as stealing money and not getting caught. Maybe making an ethical choice will destroy us financially or get us killed.
Life is complex and people make mistakes. I have made many, and so have you because we are human. Can I admit my mistakes to myself? Can I forgive myself for doing wrong? Can I go forward with life and try to be ethical and try to make the right choices? The answer for me is unknown. Can I, will I, forgive my self for my mistakes? Can I, will I, move forward with my life by realizing that the past was yesterday; that the future is happening today and tomorrow, that I can make a choice to be ethical, that I can make a choice to be happy?
Of course I can, but will I? Will you? Will any of us?
Can the murderer live a good life by realizing his mistake and changing his ways? Can the liar, cheat, and thief do the same? It does happen. Sometimes people we think must be the worst of humanity can convert to a good life. It can happen in prison. It can happen in church, or some other place. I think that you and I must let go of troubling thoughts that do not move us forward. We must admit we are human and that we will make some mistakes. Then we must try to understand the ethical choice and do our best to make it.
The past is over, forget it. The sun is rising and the new day is here. We are capable of much good even if we have seen much bad. The human spirit is strong and can overcome. Nobody is saying it will be easy. God bless you Lynne. Also please bless yourself, and may you see that the glass is half full and not half empty. There is a difference and if we can see the good it will be easier for us to feel good.
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