"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge."
Stephen Hawking
Hello folks, I want to write about Luci's discussion. She is my friend, even if we have different views on some things. So, I respect her opinions and views, since we live in 21st century.
So, I must tell here, I dont want to hurt, to insult, to mock, or show any kind of disrespect here towards her and her ideas. Please, keep it in mind while reading this blog. I wish Luci will not judge me so hard.
Here we go, from what this story started:
(this is pic taken from original discussion here)
I remember, once I saw a question: "How to perform prayers (Islam prayers) in the North and South poles, cuz there are no sun changes during months" (Prayer time in Islam changes according moving of sun, so question came, how to deal with it, if there is only 6 month day, and 6 month night, for example). One scholar answered it correctly, but what is most important here, he added: "This question acutally was not intented to figure out about prayers in poles, but it carried:
1. - Hidden criticism of Islam. Showing that praying in poles is impossible, and show that religion contradicts to itself.
2. - Showing him\herself wiser than religion, smarted and higher than religions aspects and understandings."
Luci, I am not telling you are like this, but I want to prevent ourselves from this in future, cuz you mentioned that you might use answers in your future blog. So, I want to find compromise and prevent us from any kind of arguement on this fragile and sharp topic. Don't take these words personally.
(Gerardo Gordillo Munoz mentioned it perfectly)
But I know, questions like this mostly lead to hidden criticism and giving negative image to religion, referring to "contradictions, absurds and misunderstandings in religion". Or even questions like this carry provocative meaning, like we see here:
It is obvious, that here answer is reffers to problem of choice, or contradictions to himself (Elyass in this case).
Also, when people ask about religion, they mention religion is kind of load to believers shoulders, and atheists dont bother themselves with such questions of choice, so that their lives are easier. (this adds negative aspect to religion, like problem of choice, problems of finding compomise - and gives positive image to atheism, cuz it frees people from questions like this)
And the least, but not last, thing I saw in this question, is:
Freedom of will, or freedom of choice, destiny. Like, some people believe whatever happens was meant to be happen. And also there is hidden critism of people who believe in God and "leave everything in his hands".
(hidden or obvious criticism here? or is it criticism or not?)
I wish we will never see this questions in EC in future:
1. How come you can love God who lets killing people? or lets killing\dying of your loved ones?
2. Isn't it absurd to accept that God wills ones to live, and other to die at young age?
3. Aren't people like zombie or fanatics, when they know God killed their loved ones and they just accept it?
4. Is believing is just way of excusing actions, like "it was meant to be, nothing we can do here"?
5. Is God kidding us, when God asks to love him more, and lets killing millions of people everyday?
--- these are just random questions, I just added some spices, but for better and clear understanding to what can questions like "whom do you love more: God or your closest ones such as partner, kids, parents etc".
Luci, don't take this personally or wrong, if there were any other person than you, I would write the same, only name would have changed. So, dont take it wrong.
Again, Luci, I don't say you ask these questions, I just mention that in 99 % this question will lead to this, thats why I asked in discussion - what is reason of asking this question?
I believe, if you are an atheist, you just go with it, it is not obligatory for atheists insult or fight against God or religion.
Thats why I am still asking, what is reason of the discussion?
Comments
Yousra you explained very well, I appreciate you efforts.
@Stranger in the night : So what is wrong if an atheist is arising such kind of question? Luci was just curious to know about people out there who are religious and their priority between god and beloved ones. plus it was about ALL RELIGIOUS people,I do not understand why only muslims think it was against them and reacting hard. I believe if one finds it very difficult to answer any question he/she should stay quiet instead of talking rubbish Because it is not going to help them either.There was no need to make a fuzz about it with blog,I looked up the discussion.Question was simple and was asked in a sober way and i guess the answer should have been in that way too you could have simply replied in that particular section rather than making it even worse here. You tried to represent Luci here as the bad one here though you said you did not, but indeed you did, it is called a direct attack which is so childish,But sorry buddy , LAME ATTEMPT, Luci has got enough respect here and we all know that she has not started anything here with bad intention, it is you who took it against you and made a big scene by backstabbing your friend publicly. Just one advise ..from the next time before reacting, try to judge the question and situation instead of judging the person in a fanatic way, Maybe then you will make some sense :D
To see things the way as they are is simply impossible from one angle of viewpoint. Luci is atheist, so it is obvious she will ask in this way when she doesn't know about what it is to believe in God (and we all know she didn't create that discussion for bad purpose or to enhance her ego - critisms, and I dare to say Stranger also didn't meant it bad, but according to comments, some people think so!), but to put question about what what we would choose... I think it is wrong to separate those two same things - family and God. And totally great Helena describes it in her comment about it, plus her sentence "Loving god doesnt always mean loving some creature u've never seen." reminded me that who doesn't have this belief, he separates those two things and asks what is more important, and to claim you would choose God instead of family is also wrong. Because, if I understand rightly and can repeat myself, we can't separate those things! And I am not going to judge Luci at all. But I would like to show another viewpoint. But still I think to copy her and others comments, put to another blog spot and show own opinion is not good way.
This taught me and made me realise something. So, there is always something bad for good.
I have read with great interest all this discussion and realized one thing. The problem is, the problem does not exist. It was asked a simple question, and you are trying to find in this matter some subtext or hidden hint, with the same success we can endlessly debate on any topic. For example - let's greet and smile, you can easily find items ironic smile. Welcoming without a smile, you might think that a person does not do it sincerely. All this is absolute nonsense. This is called the soul masturbation, everyone gives vent to emotions without any real or adequate reasons. And the most interesting thing in this debate no one who would have been right. You talk on such topics that are exactly as many answers as they do not exist. We are people who were born, first learn to think, and then learn to look at all the things the way we think of them. But the problem is that we all think differently. As a one wise man said -I can explain it to you, but will you be able to understand me. Are you ready, now that your brain explode? If you are not ready, then not read further.
Between us and the outside world is a description of the world. Therefore correct to say that we are always one step behind, and our perception of the world - always only the memory of his perception. We always remember the moment that has just passed. We remember, remember, remember ... Density, materiality - are memories ...
The world does not exist in the broad sense, but there is only a description of the world that we have learned to visualize and to accept, as a matter of course ...
Just for provinge .. Imagine that you came across a strange thing that you see for the first time in your life. The first thing you do, is that you try to understand what this thing looks like. People thinks associatively. Eventually you describe this thing such as a ball, but who said that the ball is round? You know this because you mentioned earlier. Got it?
Therefore, what kind of religion in particular, and all of the world as a whole we can say more. We think we live in and our behavior depend on how we are brought up and what we got as basic knowledge to describe the world. You say that there are devices, there is a science and so on. But how many times the new advances in science refuted previous achievements? In the world there is nothing absolute.
The best things that we can, occur when we are pressed to the wall. When we feel the rock is hanging over us.
Perfection - is to do the best that you can, in all that you are involved in ... The key to perfection is a sense of time. When we feel and act like an immortal being - we are not perfect.
Now you may relax…
Adlet, I'm not an atheist and I don't feel mocked by her since you know I'm for tolerance and the liberty of expression. It's a pity that some topics are untouchable here.
Hope I haven't offended you since I've lernt some things from you too even changed my mind about some issues :)
Dear ... sorry i forgot to put 'form' word with discussion..
and you didn't got what am/we actually trying to say.. alright this discussion form is for every religion and non religion people. but when someone tell with reasons that why he/she does more Love with God then Family in your Discussion From. then you dis-heart them by saying wrong to their Choice in different ways..(that is the reason behind Our objection)
Atheist or no atheist, I am just sure of one thing:
Spiritual topics will always generate a positive and a negative reaction from people of all walks of life.
Learn a lesson from the story below:
50 wise men were given a Science book for them to read a chosen chapter. After a quarter hour, each man was given the same question and each of them was able to give the same answers.
The same 50 men were given another book. This time it was the Bible. After reading a chapter for a quarter hour, each man was given the same question. To the amazement of the committe in charge, each men gave a different answer. No two men have the same answers.
Hope you got the lesson from it!
"... or the lack of them..."
Correction: "....will believe in a kind of God", not something. :)
Hello Stranger in the night, I understand Luci. I think our beliefs come from different experiences we had in life, and nothing is static, so someday maybe a person who is cetic about religion will believe in something or the opposite might happen. There is no wrong and right when it comes to faith or the lack of it, but we can do very bad things thinking we are doing this in the name of the God we believe in.
I don't have much time today to discuss this, but I truly hope people start to respect the others beliefs of the lack of them, we don't need to agree with anybody, but we can't change the way people feel. And I know how much this might be hard sometimes, but in order to live in a world full of different cultures we must try.
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